Showing posts with label green bean. Show all posts
Showing posts with label green bean. Show all posts

Monday, May 1, 2017

The story of my first 50 miler – Eagle Canyon, 2017

You heard right. The title of this post is an accurate tease. I finally got to and completed a 50 miler ride. For those who know how long I have been drifting on the periphery of the endurance sport – doing an LD here and there – this was a major accomplishment for me. 

The background


Long story short of it I am catch riding this year due to Deli being out in rehab. Who knows if Deli will ever be able to do even LDs again? Her rehab is going well, but we’ve hit on the issue of saddles. So I’m in the thick of that again: finding a saddle that fits her given her health needs and fits me and is not super expensive. So far it’s been an impossible task.

In the meantime I’ve been riding and conditioning my friend “M” horse Duke. Duke is fairly new to her – a rescue with some possible harsh treatment in his past (he was likely a dancing horse). Either because of the sketchy past or for some unknown reason his brain tends to go to some unknown place when stressed and he pulls like heck. That, combined with becoming less aware of his surroundings – which can lead to more tripping/ignoring of aids – means riding him can be like being a freight train conductor. A freight train that can canter in place when agitated..! He is a little guy (mustang-arab cross), but very solidly built. Luckily he also has comfy gaits, so when he is hopping all over the place like a loon you at least are not being jarred everywhere.

Observe how adorable this guy is:

So I’ve been riding Duke 1-2 times a week and enjoying the challenge and getting to know him better. The good news is every ride came with some slight improvement. I hope I have been helpful overall, because there is some hope that Duke would be the mount for M’s kid, who has also done endurance.

Me on Duke on The Deschutes River trail.
Two weekends before the planned 50 M and I took Duke and her other horse, Pepper (who has completed Tevis) for a long conditioning ride. We ended up doing almost 25 miles out in the Colombia Gorge area. The general idea for Duke was that because of his pulling and general athleticism, his first ride should be a 50 rather than an LD. We did NOT want him, with his pulling and competitive anxiety-brain to get the idea he couldn’t take care of himself. This conditioning ride clinched it, as Duke still had plenty of juice after that ride despite doing it at an endurance pace. The only downsides of this ride were that he got some girth galls and some filling in his front legs after the ride – two things that were good information to have. Plus, that conditioning ride was almost 100% hard rock footing so I wasn’t too worried about a little filling. We could work with that by doing more aftercare on his legs.

The weekend in between (when Duke was resting in prep for the 50 miler) I went and did a 30 mile LD at Grizzly Mountain on another borrowed horse. This time a gaited TWH named Royal for his first endurance ride. I had a lot of fun with him – it’s always interesting to ride a gaited horse and to compare with the strengths and weaknesses of a trotting horse. I also survived the cold nights of that ride, despite sleeping in the back seat of my car for convenience sake.

At that ride I also tested my new Hit Air vest and my other riding gear I had planned for the 50 miler. I also got a cool completion award.

The journey into Idaho and Eagle Canyon


We got up quite early to head over to Idaho, with my husband dropping me off at M’s place at 4:30am. Our other friend “A” and her little mare Reba were there and set to go as well. Normally there are more early-season rides within the 4-6 hour drive distance for us in the greater Portland area, but lots of ride cancelations meant Eagle Canyon was the one.

We hit the road in good spirits towing M’s living quarters trailer and the three horses, with my companions loaded up on coffee (alas, none for me). Due to it being a Friday and a workday for me, I was on my laptop for a good portion of the drive working. Still, it was a nice change from my normal home office as I got to look outside and see the Colombia Gorge in all its stunning beauty roll past as we steadily chewed up the miles.
 
One of the views once we got to the "dry side" of Oregon.
About halfway there we stopped to let the horses out. Lucky for us there is a great rest stop with a gravel trailer turnaround and a grassy fenced paddock for livestock. The horses were happy to get off, pee, have some water, and run around and graze for about 40-ish minutes. At this stop they were butt-heads and did not want to be caught, but we managed it and were back on the road in short order.

The horses enjoying themselves at their rest-stop.
Then, soon after we crossed into Idaho, a trailer tire blew.

Epically. Taking the trailer fender with it, somehow, and flinging rubber all over the road.

Now that's an exploded tire!
We got to the side of the interstate safely (thankfully M’s truck is a gooseneck dually, so it’s very stable) but found we didn’t have the proper tool to change out the trailer tire ourselves. Not to mention, the destroyed fender was beyond repair and threatening to damage the other trailer tire. M called US Rider to get roadside assistance – something that should have been smoother than it was. It was stressful being on the side of a busy road with cars and trucks screaming past, feeling bad for the horses who were standing around. However, after M finally got it into the customer service’s head where we were (she was apparently very worried as to why we were on the side of the interstate! I don’t know where else you would expect someone to be when they have a tire explode?!) we waited for assistance. Luckily, the assistance that came, came quickly, was competent, and cheerful. He also helped us get the destroyed fender out of the way so we wouldn’t risk popping another tire.

At this point I think we were a little frazzled, but with the tire fixed we were free to move on. M decided – smartly – to go to the Les Schwab that was on our route to Eagle Canyon ride camp to get a replacement spare tire. We took this as an opportunity to offer the horses more water and lots of carrots and apples in the trailer. Luckily, the horses were traveling well despite the setbacks and we were not too far from our final destination.


The horses resigned to their fate as we wait at Les Schwab.
We finally got into camp with what I think was a collective sigh of relief. It had been a long day already. With the delays for the tire issues, it was a good thing we started so early! We still had plenty of daylight to set up camp. I ended up holding and grazing Duke and pepper while M and A set up the panels.

Eagle Canyon is a smaller ride compared to some of the rides nearer to Portland, like Klickitat or Mt. Adams. The camp was an open field surrounding by green grassy hills, with snowy peaks visible in the distance. The grassy ground was scattered with whistle pig burrows and badger holes, making it a bit of a minefield, but we managed not to break any legs all weekend! The camp was in an area normally grazed by cattle too, so we had regular interactions with them as well.

With camp set up, A and I decided to do a quick scope of the trails and get Reba’s and Duke’s legs moving. We just did a quick couple of miles while M took notes at the ride meeting for us. From what we saw, the trails looked to be fairly sandy with some washed-out portions and badger holes that would make the footing somewhat challenging the next day.

Ride day


We got up bright an early ride day, though the 50s were scheduled to leave at a cozy 8am. My plan for the day was to leave after Reba and Pepper, as I didn’t want Duke to over-stress himself keeping up with that more-experienced pair all day. In general Duke tends to be more behaved – and keep his freight-train brain fade at bay better when away from his companion Pepper.
Duke ready to go.

 
M on Pepper and A on Reba leaving for their ride.
Happily, Duke was calm being left behind. We watched till everyone at the front left and then I walked him over to our makeshift mounting block. He was UP and cantering sideways from the moment my butt hit the saddle. But I was used to these antics of his and pointed him in the general direction of the start line. Later, the vet joked with me that he looked a bit “hot” starting out and I laughed about it.

Duke stopped bouncing around pretty quickly and we got to work at a nice working trot down the trail. Right away there were some sections where the trail cut across hillsides where I felt the need to slow down to watch for both ribbons and holes. Duke was already listening nicely, though clearly a bit concerned as to why we were going out into a strange place all alone.

Throughout the ride I was very thankful for Duke’s interesting gait – essentially he is gaited… when going downhill he can get into this smooth wiggly gait where he cruises nicely. It feels similar to the fox trotter gaits I’ve ridden, but I’m no expert. Regardless, it’s faster than a walk downhill and a whole heck of a lot more comfortable than his downhill trot can be since he tends to start dragging you down with gravity.

This ride was a LOT of up and down, so every little strength helped!

We fairly quickly caught up to the tail end riders and passed a good chunk of them. Duke got more excited to see he wasn’t all alone and we got a good pace in for a while.

One of the canyons views on the first loop.
Then we hit the ridge tops and got to experience the full force of the wind. I honestly think this was the most challenging part of this ride: the 35+mph winds that blew almost all day. Often we were pushing against a headwind. Sometimes it was blowing against us side-ways and my body felt like a kite on top of Duke. Sometimes it was blowing up Duke’s butt, which annoyed him to no end. There were several times throughout the day that he stumbled sideways in a big gust. Twice during the day I got off him and walked or jogged alongside him so that we wouldn’t be blown away.

The views were incredible... even as we were being blown around.
At one point in that long first loop (which was 25 miles) a huge tumbleweed soared up onto the hill and before either of us could react smacked into Duke’s hind end, getting tangled somehow in his tail and/or hind legs. Duke is not a very spooky horse. At most before I’ve had him do one of those minor flinch-spooks. Having a tumbleweed attack him?! That warranted an all-out bolt spook complete with jumping straight into the air and kicking out against the offender. He crashed off the trail and through the sagebrush, with me clinging on (having lost my stirrups in one of the jump-kicks) the best I could, half-slid off him. Somehow I managed to calmly repeat to him “easy, Duke. Whoa, Duke. Everything is okay.” Whether that or me getting a better grip on the reins, I got him to stop, unclipped my air vest, and got off. Remnants of the tumbleweed were around his hind legs and tail, though a lot of it had been crunched by his antics.

Poor Duke was shaking, eyes rolling, much sweatier than he had been moments before when we were trotting along at a working pace. I’m pretty sure he thought he was being attacked and needed to fight for his life for those brief moments. It took a little bit to convince him not to spin around me while I removed the offensive tumbleweed from his tail. Luckily he wasn’t injured at all, just shaken up. I’m impressed with myself that I stayed on, to be honest!

Taking him in hand because he was still shaking I walked back toward the trail. I think when he bolted we were actually at a flagged turn in the trail, so we missed it. I walked him for a bit and then got back on, thinking by this time that it had been awhile since I’d seen a ribbon. We eventually turned around and got back on track, but that whole mishap set us back in more ways than one: everyone we had passed had now passed us, and we wouldn’t see anyone the rest of the day.

Another upshot of the tumbleweed incidence is that Duke, who again, is not normally spooky, started worrying about all the sagebrush thrashing in the wind and particularly the bits of plant life flying around. He started spooking frequently. His brain was much less forward minded, which is saying something of Mr. Freight Train pony!

We came in from that first long 25 mile loop very happy to see camp. Duke took some time to pulse down, which I think was more from nerves of a bustling pulser area and not having buddies around more than anything else. I ended up pulling his tack and sponging him (sponging the belly/groin area was particularly helpful) before he drop to the required 60bpm. We then vetted in – with all As – and headed for our first rest and the longest hold of the day. Duke got a cooler because it was still windy in camp and as much mash as he could eat, while I ate and drank as much as I could stomach.

Duke being a good boy and eating everything in sight during the first hold.
Before I tacked Duke up I smeared his old galls – which had healed since that conditioning ride, but were still hairless – with goo to continue to protect him and rubbed his itchy face down with a damp towel. He seemed to have perked up from being somewhat demoralized by the latter half of that first loop.

I started off the second loop on foot, expecting (and I wasn’t wrong) that Duke was going to be unhappy about leaving the comfort of camp. Starting this loop Duke would have gone further than he ever had before.

Once I got back on Duke and had convinced him that yes, we were heading out again, I found this loop very enjoyable. This was the prettiest of the loops, with the beginning winding and following a lovely creek. There were also lots of wildflowers and tall grass alongside the trail. And the best part: a good portion of this loop had us in the canyons and protected from the worst of the wind. We settled into a steady pace again, with Duke trotting along on a loose rein for the most part.


Other than another exaggerated spook at a clanging metal sign and a nerve wracking moment where we were riding down a hill that some local folks were using as a shooting range for some semi-automatic rifles, this loop was scenic and more fun. That is until my left calf started hurting. Bad.

I think (which has now been confirmed by consulting with my masseur at home) that I pulled or tore a muscle in my upper calf when clinging on during that bolt-spook. When posting the particular way my muscle was flexing in relation to the stirrup and the rest of my leg gave me some very sharp terrible pain. It was all I could do to keep trotting at times, and I was always happy for the downhills because it meant I could throw Duke into his nice speedy downhill gait where posting was not needed.


 Despite how pretty that loop was (and that it was only 14 miles), it felt like it took forever. The last five miles of that loop I felt like we were going at a snail’s pace and that it was my fault due to the painful calf. Duke didn’t seem particularly motivated for speed either, and I think at one point he was feeling a bit depressed about being all alone. I had to get off and walk at several points to stretch the leg out. I tried to time it with when there was long great, at least, so I could pull grass and hand it to Duke as we walked. He also drank great on this loop after not having much interest for that first loop. I’d been giving him electrolytes every 10 miles or so since the start of the day and I think that helped.

At any rate, I came into my second check feeling more than a little haggard, questioning whether I was capable of doing the last loop of 11 miles in time as I was defiantly the turtle and the day seemed to be zipping by.


Both M and A were already finished with their ride and actually hanging out in the pulse area with their ponies when I arrived. Duke, seeing the company, pulsed down much more quickly and both M & A jumped to help me with getting him taken care of and vetted. Without a doubt they saved me from crashing and burning! Duke vetted in again with all As – he was looking much better than me at this point! It was a short (30 minute hold) and I was so grateful that M & A were there to badger me to eat and drink and take care of Duke’s needs. They also told me I had plenty of time – slightly less than 3 hours – and described the trail on the last loop to me. It sounded like I could do more cantering if Duke was up for it and make good time.

I brace myself and got back on when the time came. Luckily the break had done my leg some good and even though I hadn’t felt hungry, being badgered to eat had been good for me. I felt some of my energy return, at least.

I left for that loop with people in camp cheering for us. I asked Duke to canter and we cantered out of camp to the whoops of riders who had already finished long before us. What a rush! Duke had no issues leaving camp at this point. In fact, I felt completely synced up with him by now.

It’s an odd thing, but the last loop was my favorite loop. I know I should have been exhausted – and I was still in pain and worn out from that – but Duke and I hit some kind of groove that last loop.

The light was getting softer as the sun sank. The wind had died down, and with it, Duke’s spookiness. As promised, there were long stretches of good footing and when I asked Duke to canter he obliged with his lovely smooth ground-eating pace. Cantering was the perfect break for my calf and we cruised along watching the clouds make patterns on the endless folded hills, birds flying. I felt like we were the only living beings in the world with a purpose at that time. Duke whinnied at every cow we passed as if to say, “how’s it going, neighbor?”

You can see the mountains in the distance!
In another amusing moment there was a point in the flat valley where we rode past a (still!) large tumbleweed along the trail. Duke spun his but around at it and kicked out with a squeal. I think he was very proud of himself for “killing” a tumbleweed on his own terms that time, because the rest of that valley he felt puffed up, his neck arched despite a loose rein, like a stallion strutting his stuff.

And Duke – he was amazing! Horses are such incredible animals. I thought he would be super tired but he perked up for that last loop. He literally felt stronger that loop than the preceding one! And I know, even though I was doing my best, that I wasn’t riding optimally with my injured calf. Duke didn’t seem bothered. For such a little horse he carried me all day without complaint.

When the footing got more technical and we had to trot I actually dropped my stirrups and rode without them. At that point muscle soreness from exertion was not any kind of concern of mine compared to the stabbing of my poor abused calf muscle.

On those moments when I had to pick up my stirrups I sang to Duke (and probably a lot of whistle pigs who were embarrassed for me) to not focus on the pain. I sang the Teenaged Mutant Ninja Turtle theme song the most… because we were Turtles!

We cruised into our final vet check with a little less than an hour to spare, plenty of time, really! We were the true turtles, with the ride meeting already in progress when we arrived. Duke vetted in great, with the vet making the comment that he looked even better than he had on the last check.

With A & Ms help we got Duke settled and I limped over to catch the tail end of the ride meeting and my completion prize (a hoof pick). All the Idaho riders were very kind and congratulatory on my first 50. Duke deserves the most credit, honestly, and I’m immensely grateful I was given the opportunity to ride him.

The conclusion


Other than the pulled calf muscle (which I really think happened during the “tumbleweed incident”) I found 50 miles is enough to give me rubs where I’ve never had rubs before. Next time I will employ some body glide or something similar to myself and not just my mount!

I actually was not as sore as expected, which I guess is a good sign. But despite my efforts to stay hydrated all day I certainly got dehydrated. That was the worst of it – and I think the strong wind contributed to the dehydration. I love Ms living quarters – I was able to rinse off in her little shower and feel like some semblance of human again afterward. Though cold water on rubbed-raw thighs and bits is a new and different kind of ouch that I will try and avoid in the future!

I’m pretty bummed that the photographer abandoned their post before I got to them. I guess that’s the hazard of running as the turtle. Regardless, I would have liked a photo of my first 50 to keep next to my favorite photo of Deli and I at the Mt. Adam’s LD.

After the ride I put sore-no-more clay on Duke’s legs and put standing wraps on his fronts. His back felt good, happily.

The next morning Duke was still feeling perky, his back good, and he was totally sound and pushy about wanting his food (he ate wonderfully all weekend). Pepper and Reba – they had gotten 3rd and 4th in the ride – were also perky. We packed up camp and hit the road without too much fuss.

Ride camp the next morning (many people had cleared out!).

The ponies at the rest stop (Duke in the foreground, then Pepper, then Reba).

Duke looking great the day after his first endurance race.
Lucky for us the drive home was uneventful, including the stop-over at the same rest area. I was very tied still and napped for part of it. It would take a couple days to make up my water debt, but otherwise I recovered pretty well.

So that’s it: I now have a 50 miler completion on my record! I can’t wait for the next ride and am so thankful for my friends and teammates support me the way they do. The endurance community is the best niche in the equestrian sport, hands (and hooves) down!

Saturday, April 29, 2017

Choosing the Endurance Horse (PNER Convention Notes)

Meg Sleeper, DVM, DACVIM (cardiology) gave this presentation in conjunction to her talk on interpreting the results of blood machine analysis at the 2017 PNER convention. 

The Basics (what you should consider first):


Balance: the front and hind end should have weight evenly distributed throughout (endurance horse being slightly uphill is a minor flaw, but being built downhills is something to avoid). Bone substance should be appropriate to body build (8” of cannon for 1000lbs). A nice deep heart girth and chest is also extremely beneficial!

Straightness: Straightness of the legs is important because any significant deviation could result in a weak spot that is prone to injury. Minor flaws such as if a horse has mildly turned out or toe in or is over at the knees are generally less important flaws. One concern with a horse that is toe in/out is that they can interfere.

Feet: Concave soles with thick walls, good heel structure. A good farrier can significantly change foot anatomy! The balance of the foot depends on the sport. For endurance you want a shorter toe and a good low heel that is not under-run.

Body type: It’s better to select for long tapered muscles vs. short and bunchy. The reason being – heat dissipation!


Movement: Efficient, freely moving gait. Padding or winging is inefficient and can cause injury. When comparing between a “daisy clipper” (a very low mover) vs. animated mover – we want something in the middle who can move through bad footing without using excess energy.

Understanding the limitations when choosing a horse (i.e. there is no perfect horse):


There is no perfect horse and we often choose to compete the horse we have. Because of this, have realistic expectations for your horse. A heavier built horse is not going to cool out as easily as an arab or arab cross. Ride and care for your horse accordingly!

If it’s a horse that does not have great recoveries – slow down the last mile coming into the vet check. You can also learn to pace by maintaining a very steady efficient speed. Trotting is actually a more efficient gait than a walk and horses can learn to cool down in a slow trot.

Assess which speed/gaits are more efficient for your horse! Some horses may prefer to canter, for example. (She tries to condition her horse to develop a canter to avoid doing the huge extended trot. A relaxed easy canter is often less wear and tear than a big trot!). Its often a personal preference for the horses. (When she’s conditioning she tries to do 60-40 diagonals/leads on the weaker side.)

Spend time cooling and effective cooling on the trail. Sometimes we get caught up in going forward but it may be rare that you get off and cover your horse with water. It’s amazing how much cooler you make them by dousing all of them (belly and groin) with water. Carrying a scoop can make a huge difference on hot rides. This can be the difference between getting their heart rate down for big-bodied horses! There was no link between dumping ice water on horses and horses cramping up, but if they are continuing to work and move down the trail then cramping should not be an issue. Try riding in the shade whenever possible – and never walk when it’s hot and sunny because you want a breeze on the horse. Putting the same temperature water on the horse that is their body temperature is essentially useless (sometimes mixing alcohol with water will make it evaporate faster, or having ice water).

Monitor the effectiveness of the cooling at holds by checking the heart rate during holds. If they don’t have a normal pulse, continue to put water on them throughout the stop.

A horse that is not particularly well suited to endurance will be at increased risk of lameness and/or may require more preparation than a well-suited horse. Know when to admit a horse is not suitable for the sport – you may have tried your best.

Other considerations:


What about pre-examinations before a purchase? Consider evaluating heart size if you want to be really competitive (remember, meg Sleeper is a cardiologist!). However, soundness is even more important for the endurance horse! It’s reasonable to consider basic radiography. However, if the horse is already doing the sport and is successful, normal flexions can show you a lot too! $350-400 for a comprehensive examination is important.

A sound brain on a sound body is key!

Al Mara breeding is what Meg Sleeper does. DR Thunder Bask stallion. Sirocco Cadence Some stuff with the mind is genetic! A good mind is inheritable. Recoveries may also be genetic -- Meg Sleeper certainly believes this is the case!

Horses for a heavyweight? It’s most important that the rider is balanced and the tack is very good! Height does not matter. A 14.3-15hh horse can be fine for a heavyweight rider, especially with good bone. Bigger horses need more LSD than a smaller horse to get a good base before speed is added.

That's all for now!

Next time: "A Stress-free Friday: endurance ride prep." (PNER Convention Notes)

Saturday, May 28, 2016

Mt. Adams LD follow up thoughts...

Oh yeah, we had fun.


Deli's back is just about 100% better after the soreness from the ride. And her first rides afterward (I gave her a good chunk of time off) she felt great. We obviously still have a few things to fiddle with, but hope to improve with each LD we do.

Problems we encountered that we need to fiddle with:

Back soreness. Likely from exertion (especially trotting downhill and me being less balanced there), being weaker on one side, and possibly compounded by cramping from the cold. Planned solution? More practice trotting downhill for both of us, increasing strengthening exercises for Deli (especially these canter exercises my trainer friend suggested). For the cold, I just need to get a cooler on her ASAP when we stop if the temperature is at all cool and ride with a rump rug on cool parts (even if I have to keep it rolled up). There is also a possibility the saddle is an issue and I will continue to be vigilant in that regard. I am planning on playing with the rigging and the pad(s), and thinking of bolstering the front even more. Since it sits a little downhill already, it may have thrown me off more than expected on those gradual downhills.

I am also going to try and determine if I can get off and jog besides her for some of these long gradual slopes. It's a big IF with my knee and hip issues, but I thought I'd try anyway.

As for the cramping, she definitely did stiffen some in the brisk cool wind. It might have been better to come in hot, knowing I had a cooler in the pulse-in area, rather than jump off before the finish line and walk her in. Hmmm. Maybe more electrolytes?!

Also: bring liniment next time!

Skin flaking. Actually, this problem was not as bad as I expected it to be. Her armpits flaked some, as did everywhere where I had tack on her body. She has such sensitive skin and I'll take the dandruff-ick over the inflamed raw sores any day. I also didn't give her any anti-histamines after the ride because the insects were non-existent. In retrospect a single dose might have helped her sensitive skin after the fact even if she wasn't bitten up.

Stocking up and space. Due to Deli's lymphangitis she gets fatleg if confined at all, so I bandaged her hinds after the ride (and overnight the night before). The next morning her front legs were a bit stocked up too, which is less common for her. Tying her to the trailer is not ideal for this horse. She needs as much space to move around as possible AND standing wraps. I am planning to collect supplies between now and the next ride to set up an electric corral for her. While not my ideal choice, since I do not have a rig of my own the electric corral will be the most portable and least PIA when bumming rides. Deli is respectful of electric tape so it should be okay. and I can build her something a bit bigger for less money than corral panels.

By the way, can I just say how impressed I am with Deli for not killing herself tied to the trailer overnight?! That was my backup of a backup plan as I had thought to borrow a corral and/or electric pen, which ended up not actually existing when i arrived. We did not practice the tying overnight-thing before trying this at a busy ride. And we were camped right next to the trail! She did paw some and stuck her fat face in my riding-buddy's business (since I tied to her trailer and Deli was in reach of the back of her truck), but otherwise she did pretty good. I just plopped an entire bale of hay down in front of her, which also served as a barrier between her and the sharp bits of the trailer side.

I just had to keep the mantra in my head from my friend and trainer who helped me with Deli in our first years: plan and do what you can and for everything else, ENDURE.

Here are some photos of our vet card:



Deli pulsed in really well (though she was anxious for her vet check-in!). I was also very happy with her CRIs, since her fitness was a big question mark for me. I think we can get them even better with work. Probably she just has that Arabian metabolic advantage.

The B in gut sounds is something I wasn't super worried about day-of because she ate really well most of the day and into the night. She did eat a few mouthfuls of grass on the trail and carrots (fed by hand). Her hydration did perk up on the second loop because she drank so well after the first. On the first loop she just sipped water when offered.

Also for checking her mucous membranes and capillary refill, she would not let the vet do it. However, all the vets at the ride let ME show them her gums and hydration so it wasn't a big issue. Deli does get more fussy about her face being handled by strangers in hectic environments, so I think this is something we will need to practice more at rides.

Mt. Adams is well run, but it is a HUGE ride and the pulse-in area and vet checks were BUSY. Deli did pretty well, but I'm curious to see how she does at a smaller ride. Also the 30 minute hold felt so short, and I think we even left after our release time(?)

So those are my closing thoughts. She felt good when I went out for 5 miles today. She's going to get a good amount of work this week and then another whole week off because my husband and I are going on our first vacation in years to Yellowstone. I am hoping to get to another one of my bucket-list rides in July and try another LD with Deli there.

Last time: We completed our first LD!


Sunday, May 22, 2016

Mt. Adams 2016 – we completed our first LD!

We did it! I didn't jinx it! Deli didn't injure herself the day before! She got in the trailer! We arrived intact and rode 30 miles!

Deli and I COMPLETED our first limited distance ride yesterday! We completed 30 miles at the Mount Adams Endurance Ride.

I am so very happy with Deli and had a blast on the trail. The Mt. Adams ride is beautifully run. Which is a good thing, because it is a BIG and BUSY ride (with 68 riders, I believe, in the LD and… 30 started in the 100 miler!). The trail was well-marked and the scenery was absolutely stunning.


At home, waiting to leave.
Deli felt great all day. We dealt with some over-excitement on her part, which was expected for her first ride. She got fairly strong at points (though never out of control) and I was glad I opted for her snaffle bridle over the side-pull. Her power-trot was exhilarating as we wove our way up and up through the forest. It threatened to rain all day, sprinkling on as at times. When we climbed through an old burned out area, the mist crawled in between the blackened trees. At one point we got a close-up view of Mt. Adams’ snowy base. The first loop was long and involved a lot of passing and being passed by other groups of riders. I rode all day with my friend Vanessa and her horse Jinn and had a great time with them.
All vetted in on Friday! With her whole bale of hay...

Deli ties to the trailer overnight for the first time. And Jinn is CUTE.
 Our only trail “mishap” was Deli having a freak out about the first bridge we encountered. She ended up crashing into a downed tree with her hind legs and giving me a brief heart attack. So I hopped off, let folks pass, and examined her for injuries. Miraculously she was totally fine and it was easy to mount again on one of the many downed trees in the forest.


Deli vetted in great at the first check after 16 miles – all As and A minuses. We walked out of camp on a loose rein for the second loop and when I asked to pick up the trot again she was totally game. We were able to find a bubble for a bit in the second loop, and I think this was my favorite time. With a loose reins we mostly let our horses pick the pace, which was typically around a 7mph chugging along trot. At points they picked up the ground eating 10mph trot. For the most part we did not go fast, however, as I had plans to not push Deli too hard. She came back into the camp after another 13 miles still happy to trot forward, ears up. Of course I question her soundness and ability with all the injuries she’s had, so I was very happy with how she moved all day.

The trails (ridden on Friday).
She ate up those hills and seemed to be enjoy the experince! It wasn’t until the last few miles I felt she started to “guard” her right hind a little. She was still moving cleanly, but it did feel like that weak leg was getting tired faster than her other three limbs.

We pulsed in fine and got a completion, ending up with a 43rd place out of 60.

The “bad” things mostly related to her after the ride. The wind was brisk and cold when we pulled tack, and even though I got a cooler on her ASAP she started to cramp along her back and topline. She got Bs on her back on the final vet through and the vet commented that she was stiffening up in the cold. I also thought she was a bit back sore beyond just cramping, to my disappointment. The saddle has been a big question for me (due to that edema – which ironically we had no issues with for this ride) and I hate that she has a sore back. This saddle we have is the MOST comfy I have ever been in tack. In fact, I feel pretty darn good today. A bit of muscle soreness, but no un-right pain (though  I am personally very sleepy from two nights with poor sleep).

The next hour she was eating and drinking great, but she definitely seemed to be stiff and uncomfortable on her topline and generally cramped up just standing around. She was shifting about on her feet. As Deli seemed most comfortable sedately walking around camp and grazing, that’s what we did for about an hour or two after our ride. When she seemed a bit looser I tied her back to the trailer with her bale of hay and a bucket of carrots and went to pass out for a bit in our tent with my husband (who crewed for me like a champ all day).

She did fine overnight but, unfortunately, her back was still sore this morning. I got some advice from riders more experienced than me: that it might just be all the downhill trotting or the exertion (and not the saddle?). If that’s the case the soreness should be gone by tomorrow or the next day. If not, something else may be going on. She didn’t feel fussy or sore-backed at all while I was riding. In fact, she seemed to enjoy herself. Particularly when we were in that bubble I could feel that delightful curious spark she has, wondering what was around the next bend in the trail.

After the ride, trying to keep warm!

My husband was so helpful and wonderful all weekend.

Ride camp this morning.

Deli was perky this morning! Demanding her mash.
She also led a good portion of the way! My submissive weenie of a pony is turning into something else… and I like it! Her worst spook of the day was right when we were coming back into camp from the first loop. Go figure.

I’ll probably post more about the ride later because I’m still mulling over my experiences.


Monday, May 2, 2016

Saddle fit and discouragement...

The Ghost saddle may not work. And the thought of doing more saddle shopping right now makes me want to Give Up On All Things Horse.

I don't think it's the horse in general, but the fact that so many areas of my life right now are being met with disappointment and a lack of answers (specifically with health problems I am having). I guess I'm just worn out and discouraged and this is more of the same.


I'm getting some clear pressure points now that I've experimented with saddle pads that make her sweat more. Another reason for the experimentation was seeing some edema.



The edema I'm seeing shows up on her spine (as demonstrated by ghost finger above) after rides. Based on conversations with experts this is a sign there is pressure alongside and fluid is squeezing into the spine channel. This edema disappears within a minute and none of her back is painful to any kind of palpation. In fact her back generally feels good, though I feel it won't last given what I'm seeing! This is comparing to our old dressage saddle which had a more even sweat pattern, no edema, but DID make her tender to palpation! It seems like every saddle we've tried has some issue, though I have yet to have the same issue with different saddles.

I got a new Skito pad that is very shiny with a shim set I was certain would at least help. I rode 7 miserable miles in it yesterday and... NOPE. Same issues. The shim set I got for the Skito pad (which is gorgeous, by the way) was intended to fill the "dip" in her sway back... which is the area I'm seeing the pressure and edema.

My new Skito.
Possibly this problem is contributed to by the saddle wanting to slide back. It will slide back a good three inches on big uphills and I can't get my breastplate any tighter. It already interferes when she puts her head down to graze.

Another thing to note: the Ghost is treeless. The dry spots and edema are right around where my weight is. Possibly I'm just too heavy for treeless, though I am within the recommended weight range for this saddle right now.

I don't know.
Another example after a rinse that shows the curve of her back better.
I know lots of recommendations for saddles to try will come flooding in if I look for them, but I can't afford something more than around $1k right now (and that's if I sell this NEW saddle, ugh). If only saddle brands did rent-to-own stuff! Plus, there is no guarantee that a more expensive saddle will help at all. This saddle performed great in my trial and is the most comfy saddle for ME that I've tried. That's one reason I wasn't sure I wanted to make this post at all.

It would be great if I could borrow saddles to try, but Deli just isn't shaped like many other horses. Part of me thinks treeless is our only option. How else to you accommodate a sway-back, wide as hell, forward-girth groove, sensitive skinned redheaded pony?

She isn't sore so I'm going to keep riding and tweaking things to see if I can make some difference. But I'm not feeling super hopeful today.

Here's what I plan on trying:

  • Less stretchy girth (may help the saddle from sliding back but historically Deli has been intolerant of a non-stretch girth).
  • Moving shims around.
  • Trying NO shim in the Skito pad.
  • Swap back to the slimmer panel to see if that makes a difference (probably not).
  • See if I can get to a place to have a fast FLAT conditioning ride to determine if the sliding back is a contributing factor. Or bore our brains out doing laps in the arena...


I switched to the wider panel which is supposed to spread out the weight more.
Feeling very "grey" today, despite the sun finally being out.
I am still planning on our first endurance ride in late May. Conditioning-wise Deli is looking good for a conservative LD. I suppose if the greater distance does make her sore then I will have my answer and truly return to the drawing board. (And probably be out for another season. A thought which I can't stomach right now.)

Last time: Conditioning in March, 2016 – Ups (and Downs)

Thursday, February 4, 2016

PNER Convention Notes – "10 Things You Can Do Better" by Susan Garlinghouse, DVM, MS

First in my convention-note lineup is a talk given by Dr. Susan Garlinghouse. She is fairly well known in the endurance world for her articles on equine nutrition and other salient topics regarding the health and fitness of our horses.

During this talk she essentially rounded up some of the more interesting things she had found from scientific research, and the practical applications of this recent research. Everything she talked about comes from her reading peer-reviewed research journals (so we don't have to?).

There were several points that are very applicable to Deli and I. I hope making my notes available will be helpful for other riders and horse lovers.


1. How to Feed Feet


There are tons of factors go into growing a good foot – bio-mechanics, genetics, age, breed, metabolic rate, temperature, and moisture (so the season and climate in general matter quite a bit for what a foot needs). Nutrition is a big deal but there is no one thing that is a silver bullet.

The key points from the nutrition standpoint are:
  • Feed enough calories – the quality of their feed might not be high enough. In a positive energy balance they will grow foot 50% faster than horses on a restricted diet (not meaning the horse is on a “diet” for weight control, jut that the horse might be working more than the calorie intake received).
  • Provide a good amino acid profile – don’t just supplement one amino acid and expect it to make a difference (for example, don’t just add methionine).
  • Should you add minerals? If the mineral profile is already adequate, adding more is not going to help (and it might hurt). What’s more important that adding in single minerals is BALANCE. Don’t add a specific mineral unless you have a shown deficiency.
  • Chelation of minerals is when bonded mineral to some kind of protein. This kind of mineral may increase rate of hoof growth. Minerals are absorbed more easily when chelated but it’s going to cost more money. Look for things like “zinc proteinate” or some kind of yeast. Zinc is a good one to be chelated.
  •  Gelatin does not help – it has no scientific influence on hoof growth (And it’s not good for your fingernails either).
  • Adding fat to the diet – adding a generic supplement will not help hoof, but it could help keeping the positive energy balance discussed earlier. However, adding fats high in omega-3 fatty acids IS beneficial for the foot.  This WILL provide direct benefits to their coats and hoof. Essentially these kinds of fats will add increased tensile strength if fed in the right amounts for long enough.
  • Premium commercial feds provide a good vitamin-mineral balance if feeding around 5lbs a day. More cost effective than multiple supplements! For example: LMF Gold.

2. Feeding Biotin (for hoof quality) – it does work!


As for specific supplementation, Susan Garlinghouse discussed biotin extensively (which makes sense – it’s a common additive to hoof supplements). Biotin is one of the more expensive vitamin supplements. Most supplements do not add a lot of this because it’s expensive. The daily requirement for biotin is around 1-2mg/day just for general health. But if you supplement extra (15-20mg/day) you are going to get better hoof quality with some patience...

It will take 6 months to appreciate the difference with the 15-20mg/day dose. In about 9 months you should see a statistical difference (most horses grow out a foot in this timeline). In 33 months you see the increased tensile strength in the foot.

So yes, biotin can help a great deal with “feeding a good foot” if you keep in mind these baselines:
  • Be patient and consistent!
  • Improved quality: 5-7.5mg/day. At 15-20mg/day you see even better quality but no increased growth. At 50mg/day – you will see increased hoof growth. This will be around 15% better growth, plus a higher quality of hoof.
  • Not every horse is going to respond, however. There are other factors that contribute to the hooves growth and strength (you need to have an overall good environment and supplementation before you can get payback).
  • Biotin is a B vitamin (B7) and is not stored in the body – you have to feed supplement 2x a day if you are giving 50mg/day otherwise it will just be “an expensive pee puddle”.
  • Her personal favorite is Paragon Biotin Plus – one scoop is 50mg. It also includes yucca. Yucca in naturally-occurring feed supplement is okay (otherwise it’s on AERC’s prohibited list).
  • I personally recommend HorseTech’s Bioflax20 product. I didn’t know horses should be getting at least 20mg/day of biotin – but looking at the dosages for this product the horse does get the 20mg in the normal dose! The company also has higher doses in other products.

3. Feeding Fat


This topic is one I’ve seen discussed a lot within the endurance community. So, why feed fat? It has 2x the calories that protein and carbohydrates do, and it’s highly digestible! So feeding fat makes it easy to maintain a horse’s body weight.

The vegetable fats are more digestible (about 90%) and animal fats  are somewhat less  digestible (about 75%) because they have an added mineral content. In contrast, forage on average is 50-60% digested. What is not digested is poop, urine, or heat. You need that also, but heat is also a byproduct of exercise. A horse gets very hot during exercise and when their normal cooling process aren’t operating, they can get to a lethal core temperature in <15 minutes.

Feeding fats DECREASES the thermal load! Thermal load is higher in: larger horses, carrying heavier weight, heavily muscled horses. (This will tie into competing the non-Arab in endurance because one of the primary advantages Arabs have is a lower thermal load.)

Fat in the diet also provides glycogen-sparing effect. Glycogen is animal storage form of starch. Glycogen is a big bushy molecule. It’s not efficiently stored compared to adipose tissues so is in very limited supply. This means that feeding fat makes the animal more fuel efficient and Improves glycogen utilization. Once a horse had adapted to a high fat diet (which takes 5-10 weeks) they can still replenish glycogen repletion. High carbs are not something you want to feed a tired horse, so getting horses fat-adapted makes their rebound easier after a tough ride as well.

Fat is a SAFER feed than a lot of grain! Horses get more fuel efficient when exercising using aerobic metabolism processes and when they are used to burning fat, this process is encouraged over anaerobic energy uses. The glycogen sparing effect is also associated with a decrease in respiratory exchange ratio.

The comparison of oxygen consumption to CO2 produced does relate to the glycemic cycle in a horse as well. Adding dietary fats smooth’s out the glycemic/insulin curves from starchy meals, so your horse will have less of an energy rocket-boost and then a corresponding crash. Ideally its better to have sustained energy. Another reason to avoid large swings in the glycemic index is that insulin suppresses the horse’s ability to oxidize fatty acids – and you want them to be oxidizing fatty acids. All of this ties into how you want to feed a horse before a ride: ideally you want to SMOOTH OUT the glycemic/insulin curves.

Other considerations of a high-fat diet in the endurance horse include:
  • Horses on high fat also digest grain better.
  • One thing to note that is perhaps a bit unexpected: horses on generic HIGH fat diet show symptoms of being insulin resistant! However, if you change their diet to include 1-2oz of marine oil daily abolishes IR effect. So with a high fat diet add a little fish oil and add that. Dr. Garlinghouse recommended the product “EO3”, which is a marine oil source.
  • Don’t ever syringe straight oil down the throat as it does not induce the “swallowing” effect and they can easily aspirate it into their lungs.
  • What about the adage that you should stop feeding fat a couple days before an endurance ride? Essentially, fat consumption makes the horse less hungry. You want the horse to be stuffing itself with FORAGE before and during the ride-day as it is the best thing for gut health and water absorption. During the ride you should not add additional fat to their meals. You want your horses hungry whenever you make hay available to them. A horse can’t utilize fat on ride-day anyway. Edit to add another comment from Dr. Garlinghouse: "It's okay to feed a ration that happens to contain significant fats, and it's okay to add a high fat feed, like rice bran, as a flavoring agent. Just don't add a specific fat source, like pouring corn oil on their mash. I generally stop adding additional fats a day or so before a ride." 
  • What about coconut oil? One of the fatty acids in coconut oil is lauric acid – the only other place it’s found is in breast milk. Lauric acid has been linked in some research with cancer fighting properties. But before you get too excited, this is what the actual research said about lauric acid and cancer: one of the metabolic byproducts of it, when put into a lab petri dish the “cancer did not like it.” Does this mean it actually has cancer-fighting properties? No! Essentially just think of coconut as fat a fat source. (It also tastes good and is therefore a palatable fat if your horse is picky.)


4. Chia seed vs. Flax?


These two seed sources are commonly fed to our equine partners and in her talk Dr. Garlinghouse compared them. Actually, she mostly talked about the benefits of feeding flax.

These seeds have equivalent omega-3 content but Chia is twice as expensive (so why buy it?). Flax helps with hoof and hair quality and helps as an anti-inflammatory. It’s good for arthritis and it’s great for horses in the endurance sport because endurance creates a certain amount of inflammation in joints and tendons even if it's not a chronic condition.

So what are the research points for flaxseed in a horse's diet?
  • Every horse should be getting omega-3 fatty acids.
  • Some endurance horses who had metabolic issues did well on 4-5lbs of flax a day (suggesting it's pretty safe for horses with metabolic issues).
  • Lingan is higher in flax than in chia – lingan is a phytochemical structure (ie. An insoluble fiber which just providing bulk).  It does have a weak estrogen-like properties but the Dr.  Garlinghouse assured us that that is near impossible to actually make a measurable difference. She told us a story about a bunch of stallions on a rigorous breeding schedule who needed a lot of calories and were getting 5lbs of ground flax a day without experiencing any fertility issues. Though it has not been tested in horses, lingan can be protective in humans (prostate and breast cancer!).
  • Human grade flax seed is okay to feed to our horses. Golden and brown flax is the same.
  • Don’t over-grind the flax. You degrade the omega-3 if you grind it too much (because it gets too hot). Also, getting it pre-ground is risky. As long as it’s not rancid it will still provide some fat content to the horse, but the omega-3s degrade more quickly. Feed within 10 days/2 weeks. Put it into freezer bags to make it last longer.
  • Flax does have the cyanide precursors that in some bodies do turn into cyanide. But the dose makes the toxin! It is another “cowboy myth” that flax seed is toxic because of these cyanide precursors. How did the myth start? It began– from cows fed linseed cake (which is the same plant but with the oil taken out of it). Cattle have the enzyme to break down the cryogenic precursors and they had some issues arise. Horses do not have this enzyme! Or at least not in high concentrations.
So how much should you feed?
  • For flax: give a cup to 2 cups a day (start at ½ a cup a day or you will get diarrhea) for a horse doing LD or 50s. It’s more palatable than a lot of the oils.
  • What about flaxseed oil? Plain flax seed is 20-25% fat and is a lot less expensive. The oil is harder to keep fresh – it’s very sensitive to light, and needs to be refrigerated.
  • What about grinding flax? You will get 2x the digestibility out of ground (slightly ground). This is different than oats (where grinding does nothing) because flax is a SEED and has a hard hull.
Someone asked about black oil sunflower seeds. For BOSS – good way to get fat into them as a source of calories. But they have more omega-6s than omega-3s (and omega-6s are pro-inflamation). But at a better ratio than most vegetable oils!


5. Feeding Grain to the Endurance Horse


Oats, corn, barley, etc. The main thing to remember about feeding grain is: there is a limit to how much grain horses can digest in a day.

When feeding 5-11lbs of grain a day the risk of colic increases by a significant percentage. Why? Starch meals are digested by enzymes in the small intestine. It is like a conveyor belt and just keeps moving when healthy. When there is too much grain it gets dumped into the cecum. The cecum will treat it like forage because that's what the cecum does!

 Feeding Management of the Equine - eXtension article.
When grain gets to the cecum it makes the environment acidic ( which is called "cecal acidosis"). This condition associated w/ colic, laminitus, endotoxemia, EGUS, and other things you want to avoid in your equine partner. What's more, ulcer medication does not heal ulcers in the hind gut, so you should avoid ulcers as best you can. Dr. Garlinghouse noted that horses with fore gut ulcers often have diagnosed hind gut ulcers.

Other considerations for feeding grain include:
  • Feeding 10lbs of grain a day also decreases fiber digestion.
  • Sub-acute cecal acidosis contributes to decreased appetite.
  • Digestibility NOT improved by splitting a large amounts of grain into many meals.
  • The least digestible grains are corn and others with a very hard casing (the “hard grinds”). There is NO advantage to processing oats or other grain feeds compared to the straight grain (crimping, rolling, etc.). 
  • Commercial feeds do things to grain to make them more digestible, so if you want to feed grain that might be the way to go.
  • With respect to sprouting grains (as in fodder): it does improve digestibility, improves the vitamins the horse can access, and makes it palatable. If the grain is still intact enough to sprout and grow then you know you are getting a high quality grain. 

6. Ride-day Breakfast


  • Re-think 4am grain or concentrate breakfast. Why not? Because you don’t need the energy spurt at the start of the ride. You want the burst later and you don’t want a slump at the “lunch” hour. This does not mean they can't get a mash of soaked pellets or something similar. So give them a flake of alfalfa in the morning. Or soak some pellets of alfalfa. Just to make him happy!
  • The horse should be eating FREE CHOICE forage all day long! And days beforehand. This packs the gut full and will help store water if nothing else.
  • Feed them any concentrates the DAY BEFORE (before midnight). The "lighter fluid" can be filled up the day before and your horse's glycogen stores will be full. And you will skip the glucose-insulin curve with this practice.
  • Make sure he finishes all concentrates before midnight the night before.
  • The only horses that need carbs during the day are the ones being competitive. 

7. Preferred Gait Studies


How does the body mass and distribution of weight affect energy costs? Does reducing mass of a distal limb increase energy efficiency? 

We know there is a linear relation between increasing mass and energy costs. When measured in fit Arab horses, adding 1.5lbs to each ankle increased energy costs by 11%. If the same amount of weight was at the center of gravity increased energy costs by only 0.6%. So every 1lb you add to the legs equals the same energy cost (approximately) as adding 18lbs over the center of gravity (such as tied to the saddle or breast collar). But you don’t get the extra “credit” points when standing for best condition if you have things on your horse's lower limbs.

So what should you do? Essentially, balance hoof protection against unnecessary additional weight! Ask: does my horse really need splint or bell boots? Does he need the heavy shoe or can I find something lighter? Or maybe be dynamic and change the booting and leg protection throughout the ride. For example, if you know the first loop is going to have a lot of brambles or cacti, put on protective boots and then pull them off for the second loop which has more sandy terrain.

(This is one reason it's important to train in the gear you are going to use, too, so your horse get's used to the energy expenditure required in wearing boots.) 

8. The "Sweet Spot" for Gait

Energy costs for the horse rise outside the “sweet spot” – ie. the speeds they are willing to keep up all day long. Most horses will have this for each gait. If the horse chooses their own speed they will usually choose the sweet spot themselves. Where an extended (or collected) gait goes away from the sweet spot we should make them transition to a different gait or else they are expending energy needlessly. The main qualifier for this is that if you have an inexperienced horse they may try and tell you their "sweet spot" isn’t quite what it actually is (I promise, Deli, the sweet spot is not jigging sideways). It's always good to change gears every now and then to use different muscle groups, anyway.

This is another area heart-rate monitors can be very useful. With a heart rate monitor you can tell his "sweet spot" is – that’s where his heart rate will be the lowest at that particular gait. As your horse gets more experienced that sweet spot is going to change. It usually gets faster as a horse gets more fit mentally and physically.

I am really curious to figure out Deli's "sweet spot". She can trot like a demon sometimes (approximately 14mph) but she seems most efficient at 7mph or so. Her walk varies widely, usually slower at the start (2mph) and warming up to 3-3.5mph. Not a fast walker!

9. Joint Supplements

The only joint supplement that is supported by data is Cosaquin. And yet even cosaquin is only about 3-4% bio-available to the horse. Glucosamine and the different sulfite joint supplements are not bioavailble to the horse when ingested. Why? The size of the molecule matters and can't be utilized well by the equine.

Adequan (or Legend) works better because you are bypassing the digestive tract. Adequan is 90% more bio-available. So Dr. Garlinghouse's recommendation is that you get 2 vials of Adequan rather than buying expensive supplements. In the long run this might actually save you money!

Here is another article I found comparing Adequan, Legend, and Pentosan. I'm particularly interested in researching and asking my vet about Pentosan for Deli, as she doesn't have any specific joints that are problematic (just a history of traumatic injury).

10. The best thing to feed DURING the ride is hay! 

You can also feed a lower-glycemic mash (triple crown senior is pretty good for this). As an aside – green grass is MAGIC for horses! If you have access to pasture and your horse is not sugar sensitive, green grass can do wonders to multiple systems in a horse’s body. This includes ride-day.


This is what we do at the end of anything long: a good roll!

That's all for now! Since a lot of what Susan Garlinghouse spoke about related to nutrition, I thought I’d provide a link to an article on nutrition and management made specifically for Green Beans.


Next time: Notes from "Endurance Foot Care" by Sue Summers and Lee Pearce.